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#10585451 Jan 27, 2015 at 06:47 PM
Veteran
2054 Posts
#10585428 Sowpotty wrote:


I'm not really sure how to phrase what I gonna reply with so I might not give the point I want but.

Just because something has always existed doesn't make it right. Even when the feight maybe in possible that shouldn't mean we should just give up. To says its not gonna change theirs no point. Isn't that running away from issues you know exist, you know you can do something to reduce or stop in some situations. you say it maybe be impossible and yes that could be true. But history in an entire shows the impossible is more like to happen sometimes then the improbable.


I get what you are trying to say. But let's be real for a moment. Violence will always be here. It's natural. Animals kill eachother all the time. We kill animals for food all the time. It will always be like that. Sure we might have peaceful times but there will never be world peace in my opinion. It's against nature and well you know how things work out when they work against that. I am not saying we should kill eachother all the time, I am just saying that stuff like that is natural and will always happen, so we should be prepared for that and not just be like "but we are friendly guys pls no shoot".
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#10585505 Jan 27, 2015 at 06:55 PM
Officer
3357 Posts
As much as the military is "fighting" a lot of what we do is to prevent fighting as well. Many military activities are meant to make peace and/or aid people in defending themselves. Much of my military career was spent in less fortunate countries training their military, building schools, and making friends. War, fighting, killing, isn't what it is all about. It is also about defending and aiding those who cannot help themselves.
"Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan." - Galeazzo Ciano
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#10585579 Jan 27, 2015 at 07:10 PM
74 Posts
#10585451 Shadowwolf wrote:


I get what you are trying to say. But let's be real for a moment. Violence will always be here. It's natural. Animals kill eachother all the time. We kill animals for food all the time. It will always be like that. Sure we might have peaceful times but there will never be world peace in my opinion. It's against nature and well you know how things work out when they work against that. I am not saying we should kill eachother all the time, I am just saying that stuff like that is natural and will always happen, so we should be prepared for that and not just be like "but we are friendly guys pls no shoot".



I understand that there will never be peace and i agree there should be some system to stop it I just think there are better systems into preventing violence.

In terms of yours silent, I have never really heard that part of the military so i will take note for future reference.


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#10585751 Jan 27, 2015 at 07:48 PM
Officer
1658 Posts
As long as the world is capitalist (which will never change), there will be wars.

Some wars are 'justified', but it's a last resort.

And yes, violence is in our nature... But the humans are getting further and further away from their instincts in the past centuries and will continue to do so. We are now more rational, which makes instincts weaker. Which leads to this new kind of terrorism, the information terrorism (Anonymous). It's more effective yet affects less innoncent people than actual wars.

But my point is: Sometimes wars are justified, as Civil wars (Not always) BUT it doesn't make it right to go around killing people. Nowadays we know violence is not the only solution as it was in the past.
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#10585803 Jan 27, 2015 at 08:01 PM
Veteran
2054 Posts
#10585751 ElChupacabra wrote:

As long as the world is capitalist (which will never change), there will be wars.

Some wars are 'justified', but it's a last resort.

And yes, violence is in our nature... But the humans are getting further and further away from their instincts in the past centuries and will continue to do so. We are now more rational, which makes instincts weaker. Which leads to this new kind of terrorism, the information terrorism (Anonymous). It's more effective yet affects less innoncent people than actual wars.

But my point is: Sometimes wars are justified, as Civil wars (Not always) BUT it doesn't make it right to go around killing people. Nowadays we know violence is not the only solution as it was in the past.


By getting further away from our insticts (nature) we are just destroying ourselves really. That's why I hate this time period. It's eventually gonna wipe out humanity which isn't necessarily a bad thing hu3.

The information wars are not actual wars. It's just advanced propaganda. For example 100 years ago no one in the western world would think Russia are the good guys in the Ukraine conflict. Nowadays we have split opinons everywhere. That's all to it really imo.
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#10585838 Jan 27, 2015 at 08:09 PM
Officer
2211 Posts
#10585579 Sowpotty wrote:

#10585451 Shadowwolf wrote:


I get what you are trying to say. But let's be real for a moment. Violence will always be here. It's natural. Animals kill eachother all the time. We kill animals for food all the time. It will always be like that. Sure we might have peaceful times but there will never be world peace in my opinion. It's against nature and well you know how things work out when they work against that. I am not saying we should kill eachother all the time, I am just saying that stuff like that is natural and will always happen, so we should be prepared for that and not just be like "but we are friendly guys pls no shoot".



I understand that there will never be peace and i agree there should be some system to stop it I just think there are better systems into preventing violence.

In terms of yours silent, I have never really heard that part of the military so i will take note for future reference.




When I did my service I had to clean up a beach with my fellow soldiers because of an oil leak to save the nature at the said area and help the police forces to find a missing kid in the woods.

Yes, military is a lot more than just "killing". Sure they taught me how to disable and even kill my enemy with bare hands or with an empty gun (where to aim the hits etc.) but you must be really ignorant or blind if you think they only train us to kill.

Obviously the number one priority in our defense forces is to keep our country safe and to learn to defend it but there's a lot more to it. Also, I hate how you said "Thats why i don't really respect solders much." - that was just a retarded statement. Who do you think will keep you and your family safe when your country is under attack?
Things might be a bit different in America where being a soldier is somewhat popular and sexy according to the western media but think about us Finns for example; we live next to Russia. What do you think would happen to us if we didn't have a military force? We are NOT interfering any wars, we are not even in NATO. We train soldiers to protect our independent father land and to make sure it stays that way.

Also, in my country every man has to complete either a civilian service (working at a library/nursing home etc) or the military service so we don't even have a fucking choice.
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#10585961 Jan 27, 2015 at 08:31 PM
Officer
3357 Posts
Depending on what you do in the military, it may be your job to kill if needed. Members of the military follow orders and do what they are told. I don't see how it would be fair of someone to respect them less for doing what they are told for their country.

Voimis most of us didn't join because it is "cool" or "sexy". Sometimes I think the media may attempt to portray it that way. But no one I know thinks of it that way. This chart is also a reason it may appear that way.
"Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan." - Galeazzo Ciano
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#10585994 Jan 27, 2015 at 08:38 PM
Officer
2211 Posts
#10585961 Silent wrote:

Depending on what you do in the military, it may be your job to kill if needed. Members of the military follow orders and do what they are told. I don't see how it would be fair of someone to respect them less for doing what they are told for their country.

Voimis most of us didn't join because it is "cool" or "sexy". Sometimes I think the media may attempt to portray it that way. But no one I know thinks of it that way. This chart is also a reason it may appear that way.



Silent, that's exactly what I mean.
I never said you did it because of the popularity, but that's just how the media wants people to see it
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#10586124 Jan 27, 2015 at 09:11 PM · Edited over 7 years ago
74 Posts
#10585838 Voimis wrote:


When I did my service I had to clean up a beach with my fellow soldiers because of an oil leak to save the nature at the said area and help the police forces to find a missing kid in the woods.

Yes, military is a lot more than just "killing". Sure they taught me how to disable and even kill my enemy with bare hands or with an empty gun (where to aim the hits etc.) but you must be really ignorant or blind if you think they only train us to kill.

Obviously the number one priority in our defense forces is to keep our country safe and to learn to defend it but there's a lot more to it. Also, I hate how you said "Thats why i don't really respect solders much." - that was just a retarded statement. Who do you think will keep you and your family safe when your country is under attack?
Things might be a bit different in America where being a soldier is somewhat popular and sexy according to the western media but think about us Finns for example; we live next to Russia. What do you think would happen to us if we didn't have a military force? We are NOT interfering any wars, we are not even in NATO. We train soldiers to protect our independent father land and to make sure it stays that way.

Also, in my country every man has to complete either a civilian service (working at a library/nursing home etc) or the military service so we don't even have a fucking choice.



I never meant to imply that the military are trained just to to kill, it was just that I have never seen anything good come from the military personally. However thanks to information provided by you guys I know more of the good things that come from the it.
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#10586295 Jan 27, 2015 at 09:49 PM
685 Posts
why men have to make military service but in most of the countries women dont need too?
that is sexist, like saying men are able to make the war but women no.
:/
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#10586323 Jan 27, 2015 at 09:54 PM
Officer
3357 Posts
#10586295 Asi wrote:

why men have to make military service but in most of the countries women dont need too?
that is sexist, like saying men are able to make the war but women no.
:/



Women still can if they choose to....
"Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan." - Galeazzo Ciano
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#10586365 Jan 27, 2015 at 10:04 PM
685 Posts
#10586323 Silent wrote:

#10586295 Asi wrote:

why men have to make military service but in most of the countries women dont need too?
that is sexist, like saying men are able to make the war but women no.
:/



Women still can if they choose to....

but if its obligatory, it should be for both genres
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#10586404 Jan 27, 2015 at 10:15 PM
Officer
3357 Posts
#10586365 Asi wrote:

#10586323 Silent wrote:

#10586295 Asi wrote:

why men have to make military service but in most of the countries women dont need too?
that is sexist, like saying men are able to make the war but women no.
:/



Women still can if they choose to....

but if its obligatory, it should be for both genres


If thats your opinion... but there is nothing sexist about it lol. Forcing men to serve in some way but not forcing women is in no way discriminatory
"Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan." - Galeazzo Ciano
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#10586451 Jan 27, 2015 at 10:27 PM
685 Posts
#10586404 Silent wrote:

#10586365 Asi wrote:

#10586323 Silent wrote:

#10586295 Asi wrote:

why men have to make military service but in most of the countries women dont need too?
that is sexist, like saying men are able to make the war but women no.
:/



Women still can if they choose to....

but if its obligatory, it should be for both genres


If thats your opinion... but there is nothing sexist about it lol. Forcing men to serve in some way but not forcing women is in no way discriminatory

wow is OBVIUSLY discriminatory cuz u are giving them a different treat O.O
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#10586565 Jan 27, 2015 at 10:47 PM
Officer
3357 Posts
#10586451 Asi wrote:

#10586404 Silent wrote:

#10586365 Asi wrote:

#10586323 Silent wrote:

#10586295 Asi wrote:

why men have to make military service but in most of the countries women dont need too?
that is sexist, like saying men are able to make the war but women no.
:/



Women still can if they choose to....

but if its obligatory, it should be for both genres


If thats your opinion... but there is nothing sexist about it lol. Forcing men to serve in some way but not forcing women is in no way discriminatory

wow is OBVIUSLY discriminatory cuz u are giving them a different treat O.O



not sexism... not discriminatory
"Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan." - Galeazzo Ciano
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#10586646 Jan 27, 2015 at 11:05 PM
Officer
6015 Posts
#10586404 Silent wrote:


If thats your opinion... but there is nothing sexist about it lol. Forcing men to serve in some way but not forcing women is in no way discriminatory



"forcing men to do it but not women"

lol, yes. it's something
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#10587253 Jan 28, 2015 at 02:04 AM
Advisor
70 Posts
This thread has it all!!! Nationalism, Terrorism, Sexism. America Does a lot of killing of people and do alot of shady shit, but so does every other country. We just have been the best at it for the last 200 + years If you have never heard of any of the shady shit America does here is a known incident of the U.S kicking out a democratically elected leader of a country and putting in their own government instead. It happend in 1953 in Iran : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

My opinion on the soldiers and terrorists. I can see both points, The courage of an individual that will die for what they believe in can be a selfless and/or righteous act. I also think they could be stupid for believing the lies that they are told or believe in that they would die for their country, the 1% or their religion.

On the Women serving in the armed forces. I might catch some shit for this but I believe men and women are not the same. We are equal but not the same. There are differences and to deny them is to deny nature. Should they have to serve.... nope. If they want to and are able to go for it. Should citizens be forced to fight, only if we are getting invaded or attacked on our own country. The draft for Vietnam was fucking bullshit!
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#10587639 Jan 28, 2015 at 05:09 AM
Veteran
2054 Posts
#10587253 King Coyote wrote:

This thread has it all!!! Nationalism, Terrorism, Sexism. America Does a lot of killing of people and do alot of shady shit, but so does every other country. We just have been the best at it for the last 200 + years If you have never heard of any of the shady shit America does here is a known incident of the U.S kicking out a democratically elected leader of a country and putting in their own government instead. It happend in 1953 in Iran : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

My opinion on the soldiers and terrorists. I can see both points, The courage of an individual that will die for what they believe in can be a selfless and/or righteous act. I also think they could be stupid for believing the lies that they are told or believe in that they would die for their country, the 1% or their religion.

On the Women serving in the armed forces. I might catch some shit for this but I believe men and women are not the same. We are equal but not the same. There are differences and to deny them is to deny nature. Should they have to serve.... nope. If they want to and are able to go for it. Should citizens be forced to fight, only if we are getting invaded or attacked on our own country. The draft for Vietnam was fucking bullshit!


You weren't the best at killing in the 1940s. In fact most of the military power you have, you gained after WW2.
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#10588109 Jan 28, 2015 at 08:40 AM · Edited over 7 years ago
Officer
2211 Posts
When we are talking about the military forces of the States there is a lot of controversies.
First off, you do/have done a lot of shady shit like you said; 'Nam, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc.
You said:

"My opinion on the soldiers and terrorists. I can see both points, The courage of an individual that will die for what they believe in can be a selfless and/or righteous act. I also think they could be stupid for believing the lies that they are told or believe in that they would die for their country, the 1% or their religion."

I would like to point out a few things. I'm not sure how it is in your country, but up here we join the army because
1) we have to,
2) it develops your social skills / leadership,
3) they provide the best environment for different sports,
4) you stay fit and in shape,
5) you make life long friends,
6) it is a lot of fun,
7) you will "become a man", in other words you will grow yourself a pair of cojones.

For some reason it seems like you Americans think the forces are the same in every single country. We do not join the army to kill or to fight because Finland is a peaceful neutral country and we are not at war with anyone.
We join it because of the reasons I listed above and because of the fact that we live next to Russia and as history has already proven numerous times they like attacking us (atm we have a good relationship with them but you'll never know what their mindset is in 20 years) and we like kicking their butts :p
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#10588848 Jan 28, 2015 at 12:54 PM
1760 Posts
It's not sexism nor discrimination that women don't have to serve. God, stop getting so fucking offended by everything
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